K, I have three questions that are stumping me. Maybe I shouldn't ask them all at once, but I'm going to. I'd love your gal's opinions on them. *cough* Sorry, Eliot. *ahem* I'd love your people's opinions on them.
1: At what point does a unbeleiving (or even drasticaly more liberal) friend stop being an out reach oprotunity and start becoming a bad influence? I ask because I know that I have a really, really hard time accepting sin. When I see it in movies, music, or people around me, I start freeking out. You have no idea how much tourture Pippin and Merry's drunkeness has caused me. I mean, they're soooo cute and soooo loveable... and yet how can you apriciate (or more like mildly idolize (I hate that word because I don't idolize characters, but it more gets the point than 'apriciate'), as I am prone to do, someone who has unrepented areas of sin in their lives?) Captain Jack Sparrow is another big example for me, but almost any character in any book or movie could be listed. So I guess a better way to state this question would be: How much sin do we accept in the things and people around us, and how do we deal with the sin we do encounter? (I already have some pretty solid answers for this one, but I wanted to see what you guys would say.)
2: (don't worry, this one's easier) Does a wife (or child) have a responsibility to obey her husband (or parents) even when he (they) prohibit her (them) from doing something God comanded her (them) to do, like go to church? (I'm gonna have to see scripture or scritpural principles to be convinced on this one- Sunday school teacher said Yes, and I thought that was surprising. I was wondering because my consience is sometimes more strict than my parent's, and I could see where for others where this is an even bigger deal, it would be very hard to both submit to the Bible and your Parents (which you are comanded in the Bible to do))
3: For those of us who are trying to get to marriage with purity by not dating, (which I think is most if not all of us) is the point of Courtship to figure out what guy you want to marry, or is it to establish for certain that you do want to marry the person you're courting? (don't worry, this is not a relevant issue for me yet :-) ) I mean, what do you do if someone you could not ever picture your self marrying (just for compatability reasons, not religious) asks to court you? Is that when you say, "Sure, I'll give him a try and see if maybe I'm wrong and he is the one." Or should you say "No, I don't think this is the guy for me, I'm not going to even consider it?" I'm asking purely from a religious stand point- both seem to be taking it into your own hands, rather than leaving it to God, but Yes and No are the only options available, so it's kinda confusing. Just thinking about it objectivly.
Whew.
Got enough to think about yet? LOL. :-)
Sunday, August 27, 2006
Opinions from friends requested
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5 comments:
Wow. I asked for a post! What was that?!?
Jk. I'll do my best to answer those. Well, not answer of course, but give my point of view.
1. Did you have to ask the hardest first? This is totally one of those gray areas. So here's what my opinion has been:
While as Christians we are not to tolerate sin, it does bring up the questions...what about these things made for humor? Like Captain Jack. It's all Hollywood's version of humor for the crowds. And it is funny. But should we bend for all those non-Christians to see, and laugh at their jokes? It often makes me wonder, are we to be so radical that we should ban everything immoral or sinful from whatever we do? Or will that scare non-believers away? It reminds me of those Bible-thumping Christians who go around preaching instead of helping make believers. People hate to be preached at. You know there are 3 kinds of Christians: Those who are Bible-thumping preachers who totally banish anything wrong and condemn those who follow wrong-doing and sin. They are the ones who scare non-believers away and give Christians a bad reputation.
Then there are the opposites, the cultural Christians. The ones who go around (this kind of relates to our conversation on Vani's blog) totally immersed in the culture, trying to sell God by making him (or rather, by making Christians) look "cool." They figure that if people see Christians as people like them, they will figure that it's not really a cost, that they can still be cool and be a believer.
Which makes them then wonder, if Christians are no different from themselves, then why become a Christian at all? These cultural Christians are like the seeds planted among thorns. They start on fire for God, but then they grow and get choked by the weeds of a liberal, new-age society. (Vani, I'm totally not saying you're one of these. I know you don't try to "sell" God by making Him look "cool" to others. Please don't mistake me here:)
Last of all we have our mid-way Christians. The average of these two extremes. This is more or less what I consider myself (so sorry if I favor it more than the others). The mid-way Christian doesn't have to make God or themselves look "cool" to the world - oh no, God is way to cool by Himself; we couldn't make him cooler if we tried to fit Him into our culture. At the same time, they don't go around condemning people for all the sin in their lives, but instead they show them the "coolness" of God's love, and why their sin is so detestable to God (and to Christians). The mid-way Christians have a much better chance of actually reaching people for God with lasting results.
With that said, I can't really add anything else, except that I think it's ok to an extent to watch these things, as long as we don't allow them to become part of us. We also need to use discretion as we feel God telling us. If there's a part on a movie that you feel is against your Christian values, and not ok, then skip it. The magic of modern technology! And we also need to not be afraid to give our opinions (which should be the same as God's opinions), but giving them through love, not condemnation.
Okay, #2. I just read that part recently in the Bible about submitting to authorities. And my Bible had some pretty interesting stuff to say about that as well. Just basically that God has placed these people above us for a reason, even if they aren't good authorities. God didn't say "submit to the authorities that are good godly people." He said "submit to all authority." And this kind of ties into the verse (don't fully remember it) about rejoicing in our sufferings, because suffering produces perseverance, perseverance, character, and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
There, I looked it up! Anyway, sometimes we don't agree with the authority God has given us, but sometimes He gave them to us as a trial or a test, to develop our faith and character as Christians. Now then, this also being a gray area, you have to pray and use discretion here as well. It all depends (I think so anyway, you can decide what you think) on what it is. I mean, not going to church would be a tough thing, but I think that it's our duty to respect our authority. God says for wives to obey their husbands and for children to obey their parents.
Now if it were to stop reading the Bible (here there would be an arguement, but besides that...), it brings to mind the story I heard of a village in Africa that had great Christian persecution (long story, but to make it short,) they were terrified to even have Bibles, so the pastor tore up the only single solitary copy of a Bible that the church had, gave a section to each member of his small church, and told them to memorize it. After they had their part memorized, they burned the Bible. And that always made me think of, "Your Word I have hidden in my heart, that I might not sin against You." We have faith and hope, and Jesus, 3 things that can't be ordered or taken away from us.
So I guess that while there would definitely be some interesting conversations between husband/wife or child/parents, it is really our duty to honor authorities and thereby honor God. We still should talk to God and if possible other Christians regularly, and get as much of God and fellowship as possible. I guess it kind of all depends on the circumstances...
Ah yes, and #3: If you're not gonna buy it, don't try it on!!!
Okay, so I know it's more complicated than that. I the world we live in today, dating is no more than a trip to the mall for clothes shopping: try a guy on and see if he fits.
I think we all have pretty much the same view as each other on what courting is. And I think we would all agree that it's redically different than dating. That's why we call it courting - not dating!
Anyway, if I could in no way see myself marrying a guy (ever) than I think I wouldn't give either of us the heartache of "trying each other on," esp. in the more serious atmosphere of a courting situation. He may of course, turn out to be our Mr. Darcy, but in such a situation, I guess I would refuse the courtship (though perhaps more gracefully than Lizzy!) but offer to become closer friends. Get to know him better, seek the advice of God, friends and family, and then as you perhaps really see what he's like (like Lizzy did with Darcy) figure out if you could then see yourself marrying him. If so, maybe tell him and see if he still feels the same now that you know each other better. If not, then why go through that on either side? You being with someone you have no regard for in that manner, or him being led on/deceived as to your attatchment to him. It's so not worth it!
I guess the term dating is used so loosely nowadays that I don't want to be misunderstood, but as far as friends go, if I didn't really know the guy that well, then I would go on a date with him. Please don't mistake me, as I don't mean a date in the way we use it now, but going out with a group of friends and getting to know him better in a group setting. Say bowling or the movies. Then I would know if I could ever consider marrying him. I would never actually court someone unless I could see myself someday marrying him. It's to serious to take lightly - for me anyway. Dating and courting are defined differently by everyone these days so I think for that one you have to see how you define it, and take it as it comes.
I hope that helped a little and wasn't too confusing! And really, I'd never given them much thought before, so I never had really strong opinions (or any, for that matter) until you asked and I had to figure out what in the world I did think about them. I'd be happy to hear your comments and anyone else's too, and who knows? Maybe my views will change too...
Your friend,
Verya
that "how much sin do you tollerate" question is one that i am not too sure about.
our family has always had the mindset "if he wants to do it in his own house and it doesn't affect me in any way, that's fine."
i think a lot of it depends on how close you are to a person.
on one extreem, you have close friends, as i consider all of you. now, if one of you were doing something i thought was sin, i would tell you, and i would exspect that you'd tell me. we're brothers and sisters in the church, and if we are true believers it is our duty to offer correction with love to other brothers and sisters.
so maybe it's like at your house... say your younger brother has a friend over and they do something wrong. your mom would probably punish your brother, but probably wouldn't punish his friend. she might tell his parents, but probably wouldn't punish him.
i guess i just don't feel like i am the keeper of sinners. God is the one who has judgement, it is His responsability to judge them.
now, does that mean your little brother can get in trouble with his friend and go unpunished? no! as christians we are called to be like Christ, but we are not given judgement over others.
as far as friends and bad influences... i would say that you don't want to be around too many bad influences, but that we aren't supposed to live in a bubble. i would "pick" my bad inflences carefull in the same way i pick my battles carefully... not everything is black and white, if a non-christian is more good than bad then maybe it's ok to be friends with them. if they aren't sinning in your presense or asking you to sin (or subjecting you to peer pressure) then i wouldn't have a problem hanging out with them sometimes. i woudln't become best buds, and i would always be careful around them, but i think it's ok so long as it is not causing you to stumble. (but i wouldn't like to be around sin all the time because it makes you numb to it, so i want to stress that "sinning in your presense" thing i said earlier)
i hope you all understand what i'm trying to say...
2nd question... the way i see it, God clearly states in the Bible 2 things: obey your parents/authorities BUT always obey God.
i think of it as 2 circles, one inside the other. the "obey parents/authorities" goes inside the "obey God" circle. i also think of it as 2 rules.
1. you must always obey God (or not sin), always, no exceptions, ever.
2. you must always obey parents/authority UNLESS it causes you to break rule number 1.
i honestly believe it is that simple. if your parent tells you to do something that is sin, you are then released from the 2nd rule and bound to (or freed by!) the first.
God uses trials to work in us and mold us. that's why it's important to obey even "bad" authority so long as it isn't sin.
3. i guess it depends on how well i know the guy. if i really didn't know him at all then he could turn out to be someone i could marry. if i thought i knew him pretty well then i wouldn't date/court him if i didn't think it could work.
i really liked what verya said, if you're NOT going to buy it, don't try it on. however, if you're just checking for fit (you like the color and it looks like it will be perfect!) then go ahead and try the shirt on... if you follow me.
i don't really understand why people date at all. it seems to me that if people became good friends first then you'd already have a pretty good idea about weather it would work or not.
i don't know, i guess it's just because everyone is so focused on the "now"... anyways... hope i wasn't too confusing! oh, and verya, i understood what you meant so no worries! i went a slightly different direction with that first question at least, lol...
That's a really good point. Really good points!
I liked those Eowyn!
Vani nailed the first question. Vera totaly nailed the third. And Eowyn convinced me on the second! Thanks sooooo much guys- that was really really helpful!
Emily I want to be just like you you think good thoughts and are so good.
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